Outlaw: Hi, and welcome to Outlaw, a podcast about how the law is used to crush dissent in the U.S.
On June 11, 2025, in Spokane, WA, ICE detained two young men, Caesar Alvarez Perez and Joswar Rodriguez Torres to process them for deportation in a Tacoma ICE facility. Protestors gathered in Spokane to try and stop this deportation, and in the aftermath of that day, some of them have faced pretty serious repression both on the federal and state level. In particular, there was a federal conspiracy case brought against people who showed up on the ground that day. Only three of those people went to trial, so this case has come to be termed the Spokane 3. Today you’re going to hear from one of the three, Justice Forral, who is going to tell you about facing these charges.
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Outlaw: Hi and welcome to Outlaw. To start, could you introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about who you are, both related to and unrelated to this case.
Justice: My name is Justice Forral. I’m a community activist out here in Spokane. That means I have been doing community actions from helping people plan protests to feeding people on the street, to larger legislative actions out here, for housing or for anything that’s related to human rights. Generally that’s what falls into my umbrella, I think, as an activist.
I also am a human rights commissioner for the city of Spokane, meaning I serve on the human rights commission as a member, to help make sure that Spokane stays within its human rights goals. We give advice, how much they take is really up to them. I have worked for SCAR, which is Spokane Community Against Racism, for several years. I’ve been on the board for the Tenants Union of Washington. I’ve gotten awards for my activism, which I think is kind of funny sometimes, but you know, I have one somewhere.
Yeah, none of that matters to me as long as I impact people in a positive way and I inspire people to do positive actions. I do that by going to schools and talking to people about activism. Like out here, there’s Gonzaga Prep, and some local high schools that I’ve spoken at, to tell people, hey, there’s different options, and you need to look out for each other.
Outlaw: Is there any context about local migrant communities, ICE activity, and anti-ICE organizing in Spokane that listeners should know for this conversation, people in other parts of the country?
Justice: Spokane is pretty split and divided. We have a lot of different regions that believe in different things. On the outskirts, they’re told that, the inside, the inland, where Spokane City is, that’s the scariest place you could ever be. That’s where all the crime is happening. This is what’s happening all the time. It’s a lot of fearmongering that happens in our media. But then we have a lot of activists who are out here with signs and petitions and all that kind of stuff to bring awareness, saying, “No, we do love our neighbors,” and the city of Spokane tries to perpetuate that as well.
I used to make fun of them for their old unofficial slogan in comedy, so they changed it in my opinion because of some of that pressure, but now it’s, “In Spokane, we all belong.” So there’s the effort to do that, but at the same time there’s a fierce resistance. We’ve had Trump rallies and Trump carcades. We’ve had everything up and down. Every Trumpy thing you see across the nation, it’s here. But at the same time you have a lot of more liberal activists and stuff, more progressive activists like myself, who are out here trying to say, hey, it’s about creating that understanding. It’s about making sure that people have more of an open view about things, rather than trying to limit the scope, and just saying this side versus our side.
But it’s hard to blend that and make people see that when people automatically shove you over as a leftist, and like, “What does that mean to you, though?” ‘Cause that’s important. You call me a leftist, what does that mean to you? ‘Cause that’s what I want to know. Because we probably do agree if you’re really calling me a leftist, the people on the right, I mean.
Outlaw: Since the beginning of the more recent Trump administration, has ICE activity in Spokane changed, or what does that look like? And what does anti-ICE organizing look like locally?
Justice: I can’t talk about the anti-ICE organizing or any of that stuff since I haven’t been a part of it locally since the trial. But before we, we do what we can. I was a part of a large group that for a long time, we would track the Intermodal Station before Trump. The Intermodal Station is a bus station where you have like Amtrak and other things coming through where people were getting stopped without any probable cause. So if you’re poor, riding the bus is not probable cause for you to be stopped, searched, and detained, or held for whatever amount of time, but that’s what was happening even though the progressives did pass an ordinance saying, “Hey, you can’t do that anymore,” but it was still happening anyway.
I was going out with my camera, I still have so much of that footage where we’re saying, hey! Recording these Border Patrol agents who were taking a further action. So I would say the Border Patrol out here, ICE out here has always had a little bit of leeway, a little bit of ground to walk, I don’t know how to say it.
And so, the expansion with the Trump administration only opened that door, instead of saying all the craziness that happens, happens here as well, because we’re a small pocket that no one ever notices. Not too many news articles have covered what’s going on, at least locally or with the case, which I think is a very important case, but I’m biased.
Outlaw: Well, it is an important case. It’s part of this unprecedented wave of conspiracy cases being brought against activists, newly across the country, and it’s interesting, I think your case. I feel regionally biased about what people know about where, but I’ve seen less news coverage of this case coming out of Spokane even though the fact that y’all face such serious charges for responding to ICE is somewhat unprecedented or feels like an important part of this wave for people to know about.
In press coverage, you’re alleged to have boxed in the ICE transport van with your car, and you ended up being one of two people from that day charged with state level felonies out of the 34 who were arrested for trying to block the transport. What do you remember from June 11th that you want other people to understand about that day?
Justice: I think it’s interesting what I remember and then what happened, right? We see the ineffectiveness of my actions, but the effectiveness of the police in those same actions after I’m arrested, right? So if I’m alleged to have done something, the police have done it worse. In order to kind of incriminate me as an individual. So that’s what I’d like people to know, that we want to trust in our law enforcement, right? It’d be nice, right? To be able to trust and have that faith in the law enforcement? Well, when they fabricate evidence, does that make you trust them more, or does that make you kind of weary about that kind of stuff?
Like I thought, ideologically, in the perfect world, we would have safeguards for this kind of behavior. We would have things in place, like, we would have a jury of my peers. We would have all of these things that are safeguards that are in place, but you see time and time again, how they failed from my perspective, myself, and time and time again as I’ve seen as my community work with Justice Not Jails and other things that. I have so many things to list that I’ve done that I can say, like, this is not new. And so although I have the best hope of what can come from the criminal justice system, I know the realities, and I see the realities, and I’m facing the realities.
Outlaw: So am I understanding correctly what you’re saying, whatever they’re alleging you have done, the violence that the cops responding to the protests did afterwards was much worse?
Justice: Absolutely.
Outlaw: It sounds like you’re suggesting they also responded in a way that allowed them to bring elevated charges. Am I understanding correct?
Justice: Absolutely. That’s something that’s fairly known in Spokane, that they don’t just charge you for what you’re charged with, they tack on some extra charges so you can just plead out to the ones you actually did. Maybe did.
Outlaw: Yeah, that’s the crazy thing about the criminal legal system is that they can charge you with anything. That doesn’t mean they can prove it at trial, but people still face super serious charges and have to live through that process in the mean time and sometimes are even convicted on crazy charges that you wouldn’t think they’d be convicted on. From what I have read online, on June 11, 2025, there was a social media post that these young men are being wrongfully detained and the community responded and people did all sorts of different stuff that day. Are there things that I can’t read online that you want to say about what that day was like?
Justice: So when actions happen in Spokane, there’s a couple different levels of activism. We can say there’s like individuals out in the community, then I would say there’s grassroots, you know, a couple of more individuals who are trying to like formulate a group and do some smaller actions. And then there’s everybody in between that and the grasstop organizations, the organizations that are a little bit more established. They get more of the big bucks from the funders and all that stuff.
So I was now at the tier of being a grasstop organizer. So I work for a bigger organization out in the community, but I still keep my grassroots notions, meaning like, I am somebody who says, “Hey if you need help, I’ll be out there with either my own equipment or somebody else’s to make sure you have the support to make sure every event is professional.” I’ve helped people who are victims of police violence to standing up for Palestine with our actions.
And so when it came down to an event that again, this is not a planned event, it does make organizers a little worried. Not in the way that we don’t think people can do that kind of thing, but in the way that like, “Hey, do they have the support they need?” So one of the things that happened that day is as soon as we get there, it’s just like, okay is food here? Is there water here? Are people alright? Do they have access to things?’ Cause it was a hot day, we don’t want people passing out or anything happening to them.
And so that was kind of the first thing, so I swing by for that, that’s kind of like, hey, do they have people already dropping that stuff off, but then other people are putting themselves in other dangerous situations. I mitigated those dangerous situations, and that’s about as far as I can say, with that. But grasstops organizers, out here, we tried to support especially since I have really pushed for all of the grassroots organizers, not saying that the person who made the post was a grassroots organizer, they were the former City Council President of Spokane, but the action itself was kind of not planned and so I would say it was more just grassroots of a formulation.
And so, we just try to make sure everyone’s safe, everyone’s good. That’s generally my philosophy. I will stand by that for all my actions that day did revolve around that thought, keeping everybody safe, and we did. At the end of the day, we did. But there was a bigger price to pay for that than I, no, I anticipated it, but you know what I mean.
Outlaw: Yeah, especially in a moment like that where people are just responding spontaneously, you only have time to anticipate so much in the moment. What are the state and federal charges that you have faced stemming from June 11, 2025, and where are the cases now?
Justice: So, the federal case is the conspiracy charge, which me and two other individuals were charged with. Or actually, nine people were charged with conspiracy. Three people ended up fighting the case. I was one of them, and right now, we’re still waiting to hear back about the Rule 29 thing saying that “hey, does the judge find the case not strong enough to actually have sent it in front of a jury for it to go all the way through?” which can happen before or after the case, from my understanding. And then after that, it’s sentencing, and then the appeals process.
For my other cases, I have state charges, I do not remember how many, but I believe it’s like six or seven counts of kidnapping. It’s like something like that, kidnapping and unlawful detainment, I believe is what it’s considered. They’re saying that I held six or seven people inside the building by myself. I do have an assault on an officer charge, as an officer was continually assaulting the same individual, and I can’t talk about that because that case is still pending, but I just, it was the most appalling thing I’ve seen in my entire life. I’ve never seen something like, no orders were given, nothing, it’s just kind of ravaging somebody.
Outlaw: There were originally nine people from June 11, 2025, who were charged with federal conspiracy to injure or impede federal officers. Only three of you decided to go to trial. What made you decide to do so, and what was that process like for you?
Justice: I decided the same day. I don’t know what to tell you. I decided immediately. I knew what was happening, and I knew the violence that was happening, and I knew that things were going to go south, and that was the moment like, ’cause initially I had different intentions, I had events planned. I had all these things I was going to be doing. I had, I can’t say much, but I had different intentions then what ended up happening that day.
Outlaw: What was it like going to trial? How do you reflect on your decision to do so?
Justice: Well, I still have more, and I’m still waiting and seeing, kind of. I’m trying to put faith in people who are professionals, and this is their job, and this is the best advice they can give me, but at the same time, personally, I’m not somebody who likes to stay quiet about the things that are happening around me or to people I love.
Generally, I might be quiet about myself, but there’s a lot that’s happening to the people I care about, and I’m not able to speak up in the way that I normally would, and that, I think is a regret. But I don’t know how to speak up in the way that I want to, right? Being in this situation, in this limbo, or this pocket of activism right now, where I feel like I’m neither an activist, nor a citizen, I’m just waiting for my judgment day in a way. And I regret, I guess, that, not getting another job after my last one to keep myself busy.
Outlaw: I’m curious to hear more about how facing this repression has impacted your life.
Justice: I don’t think it just impacted my life. It’s impacted the community, you know. I was out there. I was community driven. And the reason why they wanted to capture me, and the reason why there’s so much drone footage of me instead of the violence of the officers, while things are happening, they only want to focus on me, is because they wanted to get rid of me from the get-go.
They see the power that I have in community organizing. They see how I can connect my neighbors and people who do not believe in what we believe. I make them believe it over time, because it’s just about casual conversations, about showing you here are my cards and I’m happy to be in your life. And then over time, people slowly start learning these are healthy ideas to have. These are ways I can improve my community as well, even if they’re staunch conservatives, because I see where people are at.
I’ve worked with the working class. I’ve been poor my whole life before I got into activism, which actually was a huge step up, and I was able to elevate where I’m at, because I was underprivileged. I was ignorant in some of those ways as well. But now, I hate to say it in that way, but it’s been huge. Are you kidding me? They got the person they wanted? And good on them for that, ’cause I kick ass.
Outlaw: It also sounds like your understanding is that you were specifically targeted because of your presence in the community. Am I hearing that right?
Justice: Yeah, they just wrote an article recently about the T3 status that I have on me that now they’re removing all the temperament statuses. So temperament statuses, T statuses are something that like warns officers before they have the interaction. I was labeled as a T3, that means “officer caution,” and so, at the same time, I’m labeled officer caution there’s an e-mail that gets sent out. Some of it’s redacted so I can’t really say it is me, but everybody in this community knows who they’re talking about. All the police, even if it’s redacted, know who they’re talking about, and it’s me in that e-mail, saying at any time that you can arrest this individual and charge this individual, you should. How many e-mails do you see like that coming out?
I think all of my police accountability work is connected, as well as when I do outreach and stuff. I can’t do outreach anymore, like I can’t give out food on the street anymore because when I do, when I’m a part of that group, the cops will stop and wait or they’ll keep circling around, kind of harassing the people distributing food. So they try to impact any of my activism, in my opinion. If you want to find out more about the temperament status, RANGE did an article on it recently, where they talked to the police, and now they’re removing it, right? Because they like to use me an example to fix the problems that they actually have in the city.
Outlaw: Do you have any advice for people in similar situations who feel like they are targets locally for police or become known?
Justice: Absolutely, yeah. There’s a book called Revolutionary Suicide. It’s by Huey P Newton. He goes through his journey with being charged with I think shooting two officers, even though he was all shot up. And anyway, read the book. I’m not going to do any spoilers. But Huey P Newton in the very beginning of the book talks about revolutionary suicide, the name of the book, and he says that reactionary suicide, well, let me explain, I guess. Reactionary suicide is when people kill themselves because of the outside pressures of the world, like you can’t afford rent, all these things. We know, for example, that elderly people now have the largest suicide rate, or are the largest growing suicide rate.
But revolutionary suicide is saying if you stand up to that system that allows reactionary suicide to happen, because reactionary suicide is not a human thing to do, Huey P Newton is claiming, when you stand up against that because you are standing up against a system, you are basically allowing yourself to be crushed, right? You are saying, “hey, yeah, I know that David vs. Goliath kind of thing, and I know I’m probably going to get smashed,” but in doing so, in standing up, you inspire others to stand up in the same way, even if it does cause your death, your “suicide.” Because you chose to stand up. But it’s better to stand up and be who you want to be rather than be driven through the world and be complicit in your own oppression.
Outlaw: I could imagine that taking a pretty big mental toll just like the stress level of feeling like surveilled and watched.
Justice: Yeah, it sucks. It’s hard. It’s not easy. In Spokane, I’m already surveilled. I’m brown in Spokane. I go to PetSmart or PetCo, I forgot which one, one of the pet stores, and they have a security guard rubbing up against me, like an undercover. I go to Safeway, another local grocery store, and I have three people following me, talking on a walkie, or like, talking on something. And I get that everywhere I go. So I’m surveilled regardless, because this is Spokane, you know. We have had a lot of racism.
Where I live, there used to be a human zoo, and it’s the most popular park in Spokane. And a human zoo is where they would have Black people and then paint them different races and say here’s, see the world. And that’s not even that long ago. That was in my lifetime, but still.
Outlaw: Totally, so being surveilled in Spokane is not a new thing for you. Yeah, I hear that. What lessons have you learned about resisting repression through the process of fighting these particular charges since June 11th and going to trial that you want other people in movement to know?
Justice: Have good expectations. Know what your expectations are. Know what you want out of things. And stick to them. I have not shifted on my position about this, these cases. I have not shifted on anything because I know what I believe in, and as long as you have that core, as long as you know what you value and who you are as human being, that’s worth it. It’s worth spending time wasting as much time as you can getting into good trouble. All of the things you’ve heard your whole life, stop letting them be slogans for your life or stop chanting them as slogans and learn to live them.
Outlaw: Is there anything you know now that you wish you had known at the start of the case, looking back?
Justice: Just that, the evidence part is so weird, right, like they took my phone and they’re really pissed that they can’t get inside of it, but I’m just like why would I give you access to something that you won’t let me have for my own evidence. So like that part sucks. Our digital security sucks already. My opinion that has been screwed since way before 2001 if you know anything about PROMIS software, it’s like the early Palantir. It’s very interesting stuff, but how do you congregate all this data, but anyways. I’ll get off topic about anything. But yeah, I don’t think we have much digital security at a base level. But the only thing I can say is if you have a newer phone, you have some security when it comes down to the breaches that they can get into, ’cause my phone happened to be newer because I’d broke mine and I had my work then get me one or I bought it. Yeah. So that’s the only thing. If you have a newer phone, you probably won’t get hacked.
Outlaw: Interesting, so they were frustrated because they weren’t able to break into your phone after they took it?
Justice: Yeah, and they still took it. They still have it. They won’t give me any evidence I have against them back. ‘Cause I was recording them when I’m asking them to deescalate. When I’m saying you need to have a dialogue, officer, because you have now boxed in one group. Because they surrounded one group on the north side and they’re telling us to just leave. I’m like how? How? You boxed them in. So I’m asking for a dialogue, officer, and they’re just trying to bait me into arrest and so I have all of that on my phone, but Lord knows if we’ll ever see it.
Outlaw: Is there anything else notable that you learned in receiving the discovery about how they’re doing these prosecutions that you want people to know about or you’re able to talk about?
Justice: If I saw that many hours of me walking around for like, I don’t even care if I was doing anything on camera, if I saw that much drone footage of one individual, I would think they’re guilty. I would. I don’t know what they did, but why would you follow one person for that long? That’s insane to me. There’s things happening that are important that you should be capturing. Nope. This person’s the one.
Outlaw: Woah, so you’re saying at your federal trial, they presented a ton of surveillance footage, which just created a presumption of guilt, even if it didn’t show anything?
Justice: Not at the trial, but in the discovery which was available to the jury where they could see all of it. All that stuff, yeah. If I saw that much footage, I’d be brainwashed into thinking that person’s guilty. That’s too much footage of one person walking around, you know what I mean? Not saying, obviously it’s tongue in cheek, but you get what I mean, right, that’s insane. That’s just too much footage of one individual.
Outlaw: Right, well, I feel like it’s the way criminal cases get stacked against people. Is the state gets to just present all this evidence that looks really fancy and scary that, for people who are unfamiliar with that kind of footage or general watching surveillance video, it can be pretty biasing against.
Justice: Yeah, how they connected us in that little chart thing was so dumb. I don’t know any of these people, and yet we’re convicted of a conspiracy. I don’t know these people. We don’t hang out. We don’t have chats. We don’t plan. We’ve never planned nothing. That’s insane. But you have all these little bubbles with their face and like, “this person moved here,” “this person moved here,” and they make it seem like this whole thing is happening and all these different actions are happening.
It’s one place. It was at one place. We’re not going across the city. No, everything’s happening in one place. There’s no conspiracy. A bunch of people showed up and cared about one thing. Big fucking deal. Apparently it is, because this government is a little weak and insecure.
Outlaw: What else should people know about the trial? Was there anything notable about how they made the arguments or the evidence they presented? You mentioned they had a chart, it sounds like, trying to make it look like you were all connected?
Justice: They didn’t get that chart back, I guess, the jury didn’t get that chart back, which I think is even more confusing. If you show me a little conspiracy chart and then you hide it away later, I’d be like, “I don’t know. I don’t know about that.” And, like, all of us were stacked together in one trial. I’ve never been a part of anything like this, but if this is the way we do things, Jesus Christ, I don’t know. No wonder.
Outlaw: Well, I’m just curious about this because talking about the trial was weird in the sense that you were grouped together with these two other people you don’t know and have no connection to.
Justice; Well I know Jack. Me and Jack worked together. That was like the only solid connection they really had.
Outlaw: Got it.
Justice: And because of that, of course our group chats are the same. It’s dumb. It’s so unfair how everything happened.
Outlaw: Yeah. That sounds really unfair. What was your experience of working with lawyers like in this case? Did you work with movement lawyers or public defenders or other attorneys?
Justice: My lawyers were the federal defenders, I think of Washington State?
Outlaw: Did you learn anything about working with lawyers that you think would be useful for other people to hear? How to advocate for yourself or your values in a case like this?
Justice: If you don’t ask for permission, you’re not going to get it, and if you don’t get your permission, then you need to do what you need to do. But make sure you remember, it’s your life on the line at the end of the day, they get to go home. They get to do all the things, but it’s your life on the line. So what you do, and how you listen to your lawyers is entirely up to you. You’re still a free individual. You’re still a free human. You can write. You can do so much more than just feel like you’re told. In my opinion. I’m not a lawyer. I’m probably going to go to prison, so don’t listen to me. But do whatever the fuck you want, honestly.
Outlaw: How can people support you, and I was gonna say Spokane defendants, but maybe let’s just say you, because you’re not in touch with other people as far as I know for the most part facing charges and convictions from the June 11th protest.
Justice: Yeah, we’re not allowed to be.
I would say spread awareness is probably most important. The fact that people aren’t really aware that this is happening. I have sent it to so many people I know around the country who aren’t aware of what’s happening but have connections with me. That’s really what’s most important right now is just it getting out there. People should know these kind of cases are taking place.
Spokane needs to somehow get on the map as a place because a lot happens here, and it’s really sad and it’s really hard to advocate when people don’t see it. Or people just assume, I’m sure Florida has the same kind of issue where everyone assumes there’s no activists out there, there’s nobody not being crazy or whatever out in Florida, but that’s not true. I’m sure there’s plenty of activists and people trying to make a difference in Florida just like they’re trying to make a difference in Spokane and all these other really contentious places. And so please support those groups. Please support those movements.
One of the best ways is just bring awareness. Of course financially, it doesn’t hurt because things are up in limbo for myself, with my stuff, where my life’s gonna be after like five to six or maybe longer years and so. But I don’t want people just to pass and trade money if they don’t have it. So don’t. If you need your money, keep your money. Just spread the word and stay aware.
And actually that’s not my normal answer. My normal answer is just talk to your neighbors. I don’t care about myself. No, go talk to your neighbors. That’s how you change the world. Don’t even worry about me. Go and influence people around you, the closest people around you who may have differing views. Don’t make your little circles with all your friends or whatever. I don’t care about your friends.
Go interact with other human beings that disagree with you. Show them that you’re a cool person to be around and that your values have value. You don’t need to shove it in their face. They will slowly grasp that stuff. That’s more important than anything else. Change the world by doing voting blocs. That’s how the CIA takes over other countries, so why don’t we do it in our own country? Why don’t we just start talking to our goddamn neighbors and saying “hey, I love you, you’re a human being, I see you as a human being first, and the rest of that nonsense you believe does not matter to me.”
Outlaw: At the beginning of asking this question it came up that you have not been able to be in communication with your codefendants or other people charged with the same crime stemming from the same incident. What has that been like? Do you have any advice for people in that position?
Justice: It sucks. It’s awful. I don’t know these people. I have no connection to these people, but we’re in the same weird boat-ish together, even though we’re on different paths. But it’s the odd feelings of guilt. I don’t have any association, but I still have empathy, and I still I have a clear head on my shoulders, but I didn’t know where everyone else was at, you know.
Yeah, it’s just hard to see other people go through things and not know and not be able to talk about it because they don’t want us to have any kind of game plan, while the police are able to talk. While all these people are able to talk and corroborate their stories. All the ICE agents except for the Native ICE agent all corroborated their story and said that things happened before they happened. Hmm, that’s weird. They said they saw photos of these things happening before they happened. Huh, that’s kind of funny. But that stuff wasn’t called out either, so I don’t know how the criminal justice system is supposed to work. It doesn’t work for Justice.
Outlaw: Oh, I get it, because you’re Justice. Funny. I like the pun. Do you have any final thoughts, things you want people to know in hearing your story and getting to know you a little bit in this moment?
Justice: It is important that we all care, and that’s one of the coolest things that we have as human beings is to care and empathize and to want to do more for each other. But it’s important, I think with that care to make sure that it’s going somewhere. ‘Cause we can share all our care in the world on the internet. I can like all these things that I care about or I can make the algorithm show me the things I care about or am interested in, or that I care about the other way, in the negative way. But make sure that you when you care that there’s action to it. It doesn’t go into the ether. It doesn’t just dissipate. But, like, care for another human being.
So when I say about talk to your neighbor, I’m just saying care about somebody who’s different than you, who’s maybe struggling. Because when we talk about the incarcerated population, or all these populations that all these progressives want to work with, how you gonna talk to them when you don’t even understand their worldview and a lot of the things you may believe may be in contradiction with how they act? So care, love, spread it. Don’t hold it in. Don’t give it to the algorithm. Give it to each other. ‘Cause that’s the most important thing we can do right now. Especially when things are very shaky and people are not feeling safe.
One of the things I was talking about as organizers, how about you make yourself feel safe first? How about you provide all those things that would make you feel comfortable and then you share it out with other people as the mother tree? It’s something I teach, it’s called decolonizing organizing and activism. Grow your roots. Basically just go talk to your neighbor and here’s how to do it.
Outlaw: Thank you so much for talking today. It’s been great having you on, and I hope your Rule 29 motion goes in your favor.
Justice: Thank you.
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Outlaw: Thanks for listening to Outlaw. Stay tuned for our next episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Feel free to reach out to us with questions, ideas, topic proposals, or collaboration pitches at outlawpod@proton.me. Finally, thank you to Brass Tapestry for our theme music. Check out the full track, Tortugita, wherever you get your music.
Quote bank for zines or stickers or even just pull quotes on the site?
I have not shifted on my position about this, these cases. I have not shifted on anything because I know what I believe in, and as long as you have that core, as long as you know what you value and who you are as human being, that’s worth it. It’s worth spending time wasting as much time as you can getting into good trouble. All of the things you’ve heard your whole life, stop letting them be slogans for your life or stop chanting them as slogans and learn to live them.
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Yeah, how they connected us in that little chart thing was so dumb. I don’t know any of these people, and yet we’re convicted of a conspiracy. I don’t know these people. We don’t hang out. We don’t have chats. We don’t plan. We’ve never planned nothing. That’s insane. But you have all these little bubbles with their face and like, “this person moved here,” “this person moved here,” and they make it seem like this whole thing is happening and all these different actions are happening.
There’s no conspiracy. A bunch of people showed up and cared about one thing.
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Go talk to your neighbors. That’s how you change the world. Don’t even worry about me. Go and influence people around you, the closest people around you who may have differing views. Don’t make your little circles with all your friends or whatever. I don’t care about your friends.